From the Game Questions discord channel:
LaraToday at 2:41 PM
@here I want to ask our melee and spell caster players a very important question about missing/fizzling. Can ya'll still your head in here and give me the room and attention.
LaraToday at 2:44 PM
Obviously DPS is DPS. We are not wanting to change DPS for a skill/class/build. With that said, we are looking at the design for magic, and wondering if we should do away with fizzling. Obviously if we do away with fizzling for mages we have to do similar for melee.
If we could get rid of missing an attack … but still keep the same total DPS, such as reduced damage on individual attacks, would you guys want that? Or do you want us to keep the missing/fizzling design?
We are not suggesting giving MORE damage, but rather the same damage at a steadier rate?
HeXiSToday at 2:45 PM
missing and fizzles tells me if im able to cast or ned more pracitice personaly..
well rp wise
no idea if it actualy relates to my skill or not in mele
FrozsteeToday at 2:46 PM
I would prefer the current fizzle/miss system over flat damage and non-fizzle
CicilyToday at 2:46 PM
I've always been a fan of missing/fizzling.. i think it would take away a lot of the enjoyment factor for me anyway.. I've never tried a system where fizzling/missing wasn't a thing but I feel like hitting everytime would give me a dull sense of feeling..
HeXiSToday at 2:47 PM
kinda kills the realisim too
LaraToday at 2:48 PM
I'm going to just argue the realism factor for a moment. Please recognize that nothing about a game system magic system has anything to do with real magic, and that in a real fight, missing means dead. So I don't really want to debate realism
light_smile:
Ovadya|EthanToday at 2:49 PM
Yeah, sword fights would be 10 seconds like and have permanent consequences
trent4101Today at 2:49 PM
The ups and downs of battle are what gives it more dynamics. So missing and hitting create spikes in that dynamic and allow for a bit of randomness to enter into the whole equation
HeXiSToday at 2:49 PM
i have missed and ben mised a few times.. but yes real fight are faster than holy wood
my point was no one hits every time irl
but i vote for keep fizlles..
and now.. food..
LaraToday at 2:51 PM
So let's again make sure that you all didn't take this and swing the pendulum all the way into "not what I was saying" mode. I'm not suggesting EVERY hit be identical. I'm not that bad of a game designertuck_out_tongue:
trent4101Today at 2:52 PM
Damage variables, possibly wider rangers, but still always hits?
Ovadya|EthanToday at 2:52 PM
Oh that would feel pretty good
trent4101Today at 2:52 PM
And obviously the same for spell damage....
LaraToday at 2:53 PM
It would Wave in damage rather then spike
MithrilToday at 2:53 PM
Maybe we still behind the scenes has the skill check, and instead it determines a "good hit" vs a "glancing hit"
trent4101Today at 2:53 PM
What about spell casting that does not do damage?
Or buffs, if there will be any
Ovadya|EthanToday at 2:53 PM
It reduces the impotency feel that straight up misses generate
LaraToday at 2:54 PM
Don't get me wrong .... fizzling and missing is already scripted if we match that its a lot less work, and the fact you all said immediately you want it is fine with me! But I do want to make sure you didn't leap to a wrong assumption.
Don't worry about that trent, just think about the feel of combat.
trent4101Today at 2:55 PM
I think the damage output method works as is, I'd vote for new stuff instead. But whatever Mith wants to work on!
LaraToday at 2:55 PM
This is something that has been expressed MANY times in systems that have absolute fails:
Ovadya|EthanToday at 3:53 PM
It reduces the impotency feel that straight up misses generate
MithrilToday at 2:56 PM
Yeah, thats what I dislike about it
Ovadya|EthanToday at 2:56 PM
beams
She quoted metuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
LaraToday at 2:56 PM
And i've heard a lot of complaints about it over the month, so I want to make sure that we are listening at a point when we have a chance to adjust.
FrozsteeToday at 2:57 PM
IE low skill = more missing
CicilyToday at 2:57 PM
How low of damage could a fireball be though? i understand with weapons it could feel alright i suppose.. hitting for 10 and then sometimes 40 or 30.. but i don't know if you can do the same with spell casting.. especially the higher level spells where they seem to have a certain ammount of damage.. I love what trent said about how it gives more dynamics and allows for randomness to enter the whole equation.. fizzling/missing.. i mean i even used to remember having dodge in the equations too..
LaraToday at 2:57 PM
It was high skill people saying it Froz
FrozsteeToday at 2:57 PM
nods
Was just something that ran across my mind. And something I keep in mind being new
LaraToday at 2:59 PM
Okay, we'll I'll leave this up, if anyone else wants to DM me with their thoughts, I'll be here.
HeXiSToday at 2:59 PM
some of us arent new.. just.. comunication problems.. yeah that
i've been spamming lightning strike.. to compensate.
once it was all fixxed any way
NirAntaeToday at 3:04 PM
FWIW, I hate the fizzles. There ought to be some effect, if you are skilled enough to cast it at all. Like how the 'missing' works with bandies... you still heal 'some' damage, just not very much.
FrozsteeToday at 3:07 PM
Like a Mana build-up, so if say you fizzle it would actually give you a bonus to your next spell....? Like I fizzle a Fireball, and can recast faster, or less mana/reagents used.
LaraToday at 2:41 PM
@here I want to ask our melee and spell caster players a very important question about missing/fizzling. Can ya'll still your head in here and give me the room and attention.
LaraToday at 2:44 PM
Obviously DPS is DPS. We are not wanting to change DPS for a skill/class/build. With that said, we are looking at the design for magic, and wondering if we should do away with fizzling. Obviously if we do away with fizzling for mages we have to do similar for melee.
If we could get rid of missing an attack … but still keep the same total DPS, such as reduced damage on individual attacks, would you guys want that? Or do you want us to keep the missing/fizzling design?
We are not suggesting giving MORE damage, but rather the same damage at a steadier rate?
HeXiSToday at 2:45 PM
missing and fizzles tells me if im able to cast or ned more pracitice personaly..
well rp wise
no idea if it actualy relates to my skill or not in mele
FrozsteeToday at 2:46 PM
I would prefer the current fizzle/miss system over flat damage and non-fizzle
CicilyToday at 2:46 PM
I've always been a fan of missing/fizzling.. i think it would take away a lot of the enjoyment factor for me anyway.. I've never tried a system where fizzling/missing wasn't a thing but I feel like hitting everytime would give me a dull sense of feeling..
HeXiSToday at 2:47 PM
kinda kills the realisim too
LaraToday at 2:48 PM
I'm going to just argue the realism factor for a moment. Please recognize that nothing about a game system magic system has anything to do with real magic, and that in a real fight, missing means dead. So I don't really want to debate realism
light_smile:Ovadya|EthanToday at 2:49 PM
Yeah, sword fights would be 10 seconds like and have permanent consequences
trent4101Today at 2:49 PM
The ups and downs of battle are what gives it more dynamics. So missing and hitting create spikes in that dynamic and allow for a bit of randomness to enter into the whole equation
HeXiSToday at 2:49 PM
i have missed and ben mised a few times.. but yes real fight are faster than holy wood
my point was no one hits every time irl
but i vote for keep fizlles..
and now.. food..
LaraToday at 2:51 PM
So let's again make sure that you all didn't take this and swing the pendulum all the way into "not what I was saying" mode. I'm not suggesting EVERY hit be identical. I'm not that bad of a game designer
tuck_out_tongue:trent4101Today at 2:52 PM
Damage variables, possibly wider rangers, but still always hits?
Ovadya|EthanToday at 2:52 PM
Oh that would feel pretty good
trent4101Today at 2:52 PM
And obviously the same for spell damage....
LaraToday at 2:53 PM
It would Wave in damage rather then spike
MithrilToday at 2:53 PM
Maybe we still behind the scenes has the skill check, and instead it determines a "good hit" vs a "glancing hit"
trent4101Today at 2:53 PM
What about spell casting that does not do damage?
Or buffs, if there will be any
Ovadya|EthanToday at 2:53 PM
It reduces the impotency feel that straight up misses generate
LaraToday at 2:54 PM
Don't get me wrong .... fizzling and missing is already scripted if we match that its a lot less work, and the fact you all said immediately you want it is fine with me! But I do want to make sure you didn't leap to a wrong assumption.
Don't worry about that trent, just think about the feel of combat.
trent4101Today at 2:55 PM
I think the damage output method works as is, I'd vote for new stuff instead. But whatever Mith wants to work on!
LaraToday at 2:55 PM
This is something that has been expressed MANY times in systems that have absolute fails:
Ovadya|EthanToday at 3:53 PM
It reduces the impotency feel that straight up misses generate
MithrilToday at 2:56 PM
Yeah, thats what I dislike about it
Ovadya|EthanToday at 2:56 PM
beams
She quoted me
tuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:LaraToday at 2:56 PM
And i've heard a lot of complaints about it over the month, so I want to make sure that we are listening at a point when we have a chance to adjust.
FrozsteeToday at 2:57 PM
IE low skill = more missing
CicilyToday at 2:57 PM
How low of damage could a fireball be though? i understand with weapons it could feel alright i suppose.. hitting for 10 and then sometimes 40 or 30.. but i don't know if you can do the same with spell casting.. especially the higher level spells where they seem to have a certain ammount of damage.. I love what trent said about how it gives more dynamics and allows for randomness to enter the whole equation.. fizzling/missing.. i mean i even used to remember having dodge in the equations too..
LaraToday at 2:57 PM
It was high skill people saying it Froz
FrozsteeToday at 2:57 PM
nods
Was just something that ran across my mind. And something I keep in mind being new
LaraToday at 2:59 PM
Okay, we'll I'll leave this up, if anyone else wants to DM me with their thoughts, I'll be here.
HeXiSToday at 2:59 PM
some of us arent new.. just.. comunication problems.. yeah that
i've been spamming lightning strike.. to compensate.
once it was all fixxed any way
NirAntaeToday at 3:04 PM
FWIW, I hate the fizzles. There ought to be some effect, if you are skilled enough to cast it at all. Like how the 'missing' works with bandies... you still heal 'some' damage, just not very much.
FrozsteeToday at 3:07 PM
Like a Mana build-up, so if say you fizzle it would actually give you a bonus to your next spell....? Like I fizzle a Fireball, and can recast faster, or less mana/reagents used.
